DC fans think that people dislike the DCEU because it’s too “dark and serious” but no. It’s just bad. It THINKS it’s dark and serious but it’s either unintentionally hilarious or excessively edgy. People saying it’s “dark” are pointing out that the problem isn’t its serious tone, but the awful way it portrays that serious tone, to the point that you don’t get dark and serious, you get “edgy 13 year old that thinks S&M is the scariest thing to put in a movie and thinks 50 Shades of Grey is real porn”
The Dark Knight trilogy was “dark and serious” and that was NEVER a problem. Ever. Because that was actually GOOD.
DC isn’t bad because it’s dark and serious. It’s just bad, and its badly done, mishandled darkness and seriousness is the easiest thing to poke fun at. That’s why Justice League was not a course correction in any way, because making something funny and lighthearted when it’s still BAD doesn’t actually cure its ills.
That argument might hold up if almost every complaint about the films hadn’t brought up the “grimdark” nature and suggested being more fun, usually phrased as being more hopeful or optimistic or whatever, as a simple solution. That aspect has been arguably the foundation of so much criticism of the franchise. To switch it now to being about quality is kind of a historical revisionism. WB listened to criticism with JL. If there’s a problem, it’s with the criticism.
The problem with WB is that it DIDN’T listen to criticism. Instead of thinking “maybe this needs to be better quality” or “maybe this needs better editing” they decided to just say “NO… IT’S THE DARKNESS THAT’S THE PROBLEM”
They course corrected the way a completely out of touch executive course corrects. They still think that the DCEU needed to be more like Marvel, and they figured making it “more fun” was the way to go, instead of just making it better. They clearly didn’t listen to any real criticism when their next decision was to hire Joss Whedon, still looking to Marvel and its moneybags and trying to copy everything they did instead of looking to improve on what they were trying to sell.
Tell you a secret: When people say something is “grimdark”, they don’t mean that it’s grim or dark. They mean that it’s badly written, childish schlock that thinks it’s mature and adult just because it added violence and made everything colorless or badly lit.
Those are exactly the sentiments people expressed on innumerable occasions about the films. I know because I’ve been following the discourse on these films since the beginning. You could make the argument that that was only part of it but it doesn’t change just how frequent and vocally they were expressed to the point where it’s not surprising at all that they would be focused on as crucial elements to include. People critical of the films made the tone a huge element of their dislike while frequently praising other media with a noticeably contrasting tone, such as the MCU and the DCTV shows, and using the lighter tone of those other franchises as a major point of comparative criticism. Critics and bloggers said over and over and over again that the films need to be more like the MCU and the lighter tone was a huge element of that specific critique.
I agree completely with your sentiment, that having a lighter tone isn’t a substitute for quality, which is exactly what DCEU fans have been saying when stuff like the DCTV shows have been used as a blunt weapon against the films while having their own serious issues downplayed if not ignored completely simply because they were ‘’fun’’.
I don’t like how JL was handled either but we can’t talk about it without mentioning those negative about the preceding films and the influence they had on the end result. To ignore that is ignoring a crucial element of the situation.
I’m not going to try and change your mind about these films but we can still be reasonable and, if nothing else, we can all agree that improving a franchise is a lot more complicated than introducing one tonal element and thinking it will solve everything, which is exactly the sentiment that powers so many articles and YT videos about how to ‘’save’’ the DCEU. Reductive criticisms are never helpful and that includes saying that they just need to make the films ‘’better’’.
In any event, my hope is that the films are on an upswing after JL and will focus more on the elements that will allow them to create a great DC cinematic universe rather than the discount MCU too many people seem to want it to be and I think there’s very good reason to be optimistic about the future.
I also have hope for the future, considering that the DCAU from the 90s to the 2000s has proven just how truly great DC stories can be. I just hope Warner Bros realises the value of individual, quality stories instead of trying so hard to replicate the billion dollar successes of Disney.
I am not a DC fan outside of my specific love for some of its’ properties that were predominantly exposed to me through their animated counterparts, so take what I’m about to say here with a grain of salt.
Tone is a big part of why the DC movies didn’t really appeal to me, absolutely and it is almost the number one criticism I’ve seen discussed about many of the DC films by others.
However, I would further suggest that a serious misunderstanding on what the WB executives thought audiences wanted from these films could be to blame as well and it started with the launch titles.
Marvel followed the Iron Man formula once it was obvious they had a smash hit on their hands and you can see the tone and humor and character and story structure all pretty similar to Iron Man as the films were churned out.
DC however decided to follow the structure of the Batman: Dark Knight which was their own smash hit. Which works great for a property like Batman which lends itself to the gritty and dark themes and characters (though I would posit that Batman The Animated Series proved it could still be light-hearted and fun without having to get super edgey and serious all the time). It works a little less fine though for properties like Superman, Flash and Wonder Woman. I’m not saying these can’t be serious and dark, but for people like me who know very little about these properties outside my limited exposure to them in other media, they seem disjointed and atonal when they are ONLY serious and dark. I mean, look at their costumes! All three of them encoporate bright colors into their costumes, from that alone I assume these are more light and optimistic characters with the possibility for some humor.
Fundamentally, it just feels like the WB doesn’t understand the DC properties and what makes them enjoyable at their core, whereas Marvel Studios-for the most part-understands exactly what their properties are about and how to translate them into film.
U do realise that superman back then when he first created in the 30s/40s he is the champion of the oppressed. Superman wasn’t originally created to be the power fantasy for children but instead being created originally by 2 jewish creators to give themselves hope and to deal with their own powerlessness. Back then superman are very pro active in fighting the business corruption and injustice. It was only during the silver age era that comic code authority tone this down and turning superman into children story.
Snyder make a callback to what originally inspired superman in the first place by focusing onto his immigrant roots while at the same time taking cue from post crisis 90s era superman story in order to modernise the character. Like u said so yourself, this is the problem when u are lack of this exposure and don really know much about the history of this DC characters
If you think that the recent DC Comics movies are bad, you’re entitled to that opinion. But could you please express your views as “AN OPINION” and not as some “FACT” that everyone is expected to swallow? Are you capable of that?
And by the way, I thought the five MCU movies that were released between 2016 and 2017 were crap. But at least I’m acknowledging that this is my opinion and I’m not trying to pass it off as a fact.
I’ve noticed something on my petty fic journey. If the characters who were assholes never learn or understand where they were wrong, any comeuppance is not as satisfying.
I can be satisfied if they try to pretend that they are unaffected. I revel in reading their posturing and floundering to hold on to their pride, slowly mentally or emotionally panicking because they know their mess is bullshit and they hate to be wrong more than anything in the universe…
But fics where they really never. get. it. leave me feeling like “WAIT. IT CAN’T BE OVER.” I want them to struggle, to grapple with the weight of being aware of how shitty they are(were?). And if they never receive closure from their awakening? Cool. I’m petty like that.
I saw an article where guy pierce talked about Scarjo/Mr. Gill issue annnnnnddddd I don’t get it.
People are also quick to say gender/sexuality shouldn’t matter … this is correct and ideally it’s where we’d like to be. But like…we’re not there yet. We are so overwhelmingly not there yet.
Hollywood (society really) still has a habit of treating people as if they are regular or irregular. For the sake of simplicity, I’ll use square and circle. Most roles are characters who happens to be circles. In a perfect world, if geometric shape didn’t matter: Circles would be able to play both circles and squares. Squares would be able to play both circles and squares. Talent is what matters most. In our actual world: Circles get to play both circles and squares. Squares only get to play squares. Since squares have been made to feel roles that happen to be circles are definitely not for them, they feel that square roles should be left for them then. And then along comes Circles talking about “but it’s just about the acting”. For you, Circle! For you. Society does treat Squares as if “it’s just about the acting.”
Every so often I see a thing about commenting on fics. And I get it. It’s pretty much the only substantial feedback authors get. However, sometimes it gets… overwhelming?
I’ve seen stuff saying kudos are great, but I’ve also seen stuff saying a single kudos isn’t enough so they think doing something like typing the word ‘kudos’ as a comment on each chapter is better. But then I’ve seen stuff about hating short comments or short comments not being substantial enough because the author wants to know what was liked/disliked. But then that wanting to know what was disliked may not be entirely true if I go by the posts I’ve seen about how wrong it is to leave critical comments. (Bullshit trolling comments are definitely bullshit, but I’ve seem stuff about how negative comments can be discouraging so don’t leave them) Then the other day I saw something (granted this post hadn’t got as much traction as some of the others) where someone wished the kudos button didn’t exist so people would have to comment …
Listen, a lot of times I come across fic that I like enough to leave a kudos but don’t have a worth-while comment beyond “i liked it” which I figure is the equivalent of a kudos anyway. Either that or I tend to be hypercritical but I don’t actually want to put something that can be interpreted as negativity (even if I don’t mean to be negative) so I don’t hit the comment button. I’m also bad with WIP. Even if it’s good, somehow I just lose track or lose interest or something. The subscription button is my friend but half the time I’ll still wait until it’s at least had a few chapters added or is finished before I go back and read it. And I’m not a fan of cliffhangers in much of anything… tv, books, fanfics, movies… so cliffhangers in multiple chapters of a wip, even if it’s good, I run a high risk of not sticking around. I know how I am. Rather than want to come back to see how it ends, I’ll get frustrated and just stop.
Am I supposed to enter each new fic with the above paragraph as a disclaimer? “Hi I’m going to start your fic. If I suddenly disappear, it’s probably not actually because of you. It’s {insert above info}.
Wow, what if men were held to the same standard of daily cleanliness and personal hygiene as women???
A lot more asses would be getting munched on I know that much
It’s simply not in our nature especially if you do a lot of physically labor. I step out the shower and immediately sweat my clean off.
It’s not in y’all nature to be clean? 😂😂😂
This nigga does not speak for us. Especially a nigga who wants to be known on the internet as oldmcdick
😂😂 yo wtf its not hard to stay clean
NO! I’M TIED lmao like wash yo ass! I can’t take it… These are real people in real areas really talking about why hygiene isn’t possible
a girl on campus came into our BSU common room traumatized and ran up to her friend. i wasn’t ear hustling intentionally, but i heard the shit so oh well
some guy she was talking to had asked her to give him head and she agreed. as she got on her knees her eyes started burning, but the nausea didn’t hit until she was about to start… she asked him “what’s that fuckin’ smell?” and he had the audacity to nonchalantly reply with a “my ass probably…. you not gon’ suck?” and he proceededs to get’s mad and loose his mind when she cusses him out and says “there’s no way i’m putting my mouth on you! you outta your damn mind.” they go back and forth, but eventually he reveals he does not wash his ass because he “don’t do that gay shit” and then says he “won’t make compromises.“ the girl wraps it up by saying she looked down at the boxers at his ankles to see skid marks everywhere in his underwear; further proving his gross ass wasn’t lying…
IF YOU DONT WASH YO ASS , DONT BRING YO ASS OUT MOTHAFUCKIN SIDE!
today’s tea:yall didnt have issues with tony stark being rich back when your faves solely depended on it
tony stark may be privileged, but so is every single other avenger. they were living off his money and resources for years. they have gotten special treatment for being heroes and enjoyed a great amount of immunity because of their powers/abilities.
they are as far detached from the ‘ordinary man on the street’ as tony is, they just don’t have the self-awareness to notice.
Smile It Won't Suck Forever 